Comments on: More on BNP at Oxford http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/ Smile at us, pay us, pass us; but do not quite forget; For we are the people of England, that never have spoken yet. Tue, 15 Sep 2009 21:32:52 +0000 http://wordpress.com/ hourly 1 By: secretperson http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-36 secretperson Thu, 29 Nov 2007 16:04:21 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-36 I completely support your right to exclude the BNP. It is a shame, but realistic, that pro-English (but civic no ethnic) parties will probably be competing with the BNP for the votes of those disaffected by mainstream consensus. It is important people know there is a non-racist alternative that isn't ridiculously politically correct. I completely support your right to exclude the BNP. It is a shame, but realistic, that pro-English (but civic no ethnic) parties will probably be competing with the BNP for the votes of those disaffected by mainstream consensus. It is important people know there is a non-racist alternative that isn’t ridiculously politically correct.

]]> By: Toque http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-35 Toque Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:52:39 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-35 If the BNP cleared up what they meant be 'English parliament' instead of leaving it open to interpretation, and if they didn't go around the place printing leaflets with "Campaign for an English Parliament" on them I may feel differently. I'm at odds with them ideologically but their attempt to muscle in on CEP territory, to exploit the cause of an English parliament for their own ends, means that I'm now a political opponent. Whether rank and file or leadership the BNP are my enemy (and I would suggest that they are the enemy of anyone campaigning for an English parliament on civic democratic grounds). As it is I'm not preventing freedom of speech, they're still at liberty to blog or do whatever they want - I just won't be syndicating it. If the BNP cleared up what they meant be ‘English parliament’ instead of leaving it open to interpretation, and if they didn’t go around the place printing leaflets with “Campaign for an English Parliament” on them I may feel differently. I’m at odds with them ideologically but their attempt to muscle in on CEP territory, to exploit the cause of an English parliament for their own ends, means that I’m now a political opponent. Whether rank and file or leadership the BNP are my enemy (and I would suggest that they are the enemy of anyone campaigning for an English parliament on civic democratic grounds).

As it is I’m not preventing freedom of speech, they’re still at liberty to blog or do whatever they want – I just won’t be syndicating it.

]]> By: Toque http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-34 Toque Thu, 29 Nov 2007 14:45:52 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-34 Thanks for the heads up. Just left a response. Thanks for the heads up. Just left a response.

]]> By: secretperson http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-33 secretperson Thu, 29 Nov 2007 06:19:22 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-33 Don't know if you noticed, Toque, but a comment from that very page, where you explain why you are against the BNP was quoted against you on Socialist Unity's debate around the BNP/Oxford thing. Not a comment by you and completely out of context. Andy, the site owner I think, defended you and I left a few comments, if I'd known where the quote was from I'd have made even more of a point of it! You are completely in your rights to not allow the BNP in. As long as you didn't do it under pressure from student protests ;). I think if it had been a random individual, not an organised drive to join, it might have been different, but hey, it's your club! Don’t know if you noticed, Toque, but a comment from that very page, where you explain why you are against the BNP was quoted against you on Socialist Unity’s debate around the BNP/Oxford thing. Not a comment by you and completely out of context. Andy, the site owner I think, defended you and I left a few comments, if I’d known where the quote was from I’d have made even more of a point of it!
You are completely in your rights to not allow the BNP in. As long as you didn’t do it under pressure from student protests ;) . I think if it had been a random individual, not an organised drive to join, it might have been different, but hey, it’s your club!

]]> By: Toque http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-32 Toque Thu, 29 Nov 2007 02:23:42 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-32 The BNP are an ethnic nationalist party, many of whom hold racist views. Like the Nazis they are left-wing and statist, but they have some right-wing traits like their stance on freedom of speech (which is probably a badge of convenience because they are up against a statist government). I have my reasons for <a href="http://toque.co.uk/blog/?p=464" rel="nofollow">not allowing BNP in the Witanagemot Club</a>, for which I've been called a 'fascist' for denying their right to free speech (as if I do). The BNP are an ethnic nationalist party, many of whom hold racist views. Like the Nazis they are left-wing and statist, but they have some right-wing traits like their stance on freedom of speech (which is probably a badge of convenience because they are up against a statist government).

I have my reasons for not allowing BNP in the Witanagemot Club, for which I’ve been called a ‘fascist’ for denying their right to free speech (as if I do).

]]> By: secretperson http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-26 secretperson Tue, 27 Nov 2007 13:05:05 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-26 One thing that bugs me, Toque, is all this use of the word fascist. The series of names used to define the BNP and friends are so ill defined. Fascist, Nazi, Racist, Nationalist, Right-wing. All lumped into one pot of generic insults. I could probably accurately be described as nationalist (supporting the establishment of an English nation state) and right-wing (of the old school small state type), but I am no Nazi. It's a pity there aren't better terms to describe the various sides. The BNP are racist statists? Those opposed are certainly anti-free speech but is fascist right? Lots of questions, but I don't have any answers. One thing that bugs me, Toque, is all this use of the word fascist. The series of names used to define the BNP and friends are so ill defined. Fascist, Nazi, Racist, Nationalist, Right-wing. All lumped into one pot of generic insults. I could probably accurately be described as nationalist (supporting the establishment of an English nation state) and right-wing (of the old school small state type), but I am no Nazi. It’s a pity there aren’t better terms to describe the various sides. The BNP are racist statists? Those opposed are certainly anti-free speech but is fascist right? Lots of questions, but I don’t have any answers.

]]> By: Toque http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-25 Toque Tue, 27 Nov 2007 11:27:59 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-25 The 'anti-fascists' gave them so much publicity with that disgraceful display outside the Union. They should have joined the debate and ensured that the speakers were roundly defeated. I don't support Irving or Griffin (I find their views abhorent) but in this I'm inclined to say that it's the anti-fascists that are the bigger fascists, and they're making martyrs of Griffin and Irving who, however repugnant, should be allowed to speak freely. The ‘anti-fascists’ gave them so much publicity with that disgraceful display outside the Union.

They should have joined the debate and ensured that the speakers were roundly defeated. I don’t support Irving or Griffin (I find their views abhorent) but in this I’m inclined to say that it’s the anti-fascists that are the bigger fascists, and they’re making martyrs of Griffin and Irving who, however repugnant, should be allowed to speak freely.

]]> By: secretperson http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-20 secretperson Mon, 26 Nov 2007 22:38:57 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-20 Well it's a case of credibility vs martyrdom complex I guess. I think my real point was not that they should have been invited, but that giving in to protests can be a slippery slope. I guess it was a publicity stunt. There's a chat Peter Tatchell did with Luke Tryl over on 18 Doughty Street, maybe he justifies himself there. Personally I think it'd be fascinating to discuss politics with Nick Griffin, though I don't have to worry about lending him any credibility! Well it’s a case of credibility vs martyrdom complex I guess. I think my real point was not that they should have been invited, but that giving in to protests can be a slippery slope. I guess it was a publicity stunt. There’s a chat Peter Tatchell did with Luke Tryl over on 18 Doughty Street, maybe he justifies himself there. Personally I think it’d be fascinating to discuss politics with Nick Griffin, though I don’t have to worry about lending him any credibility!

]]> By: Nich Starling - Norfolk Blogger http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-19 Nich Starling - Norfolk Blogger Mon, 26 Nov 2007 20:46:37 +0000 http://secretperson.wordpress.com/2007/11/26/more-on-bnp-at-oxford/#comment-19 I agree with your views overall. I think the decision to invite them was all about the OU getting publicity at any cost , but I cannot understand anyone wanting to give racists credibility, I agree with your views overall. I think the decision to invite them was all about the OU getting publicity at any cost , but I cannot understand anyone wanting to give racists credibility,

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